Welcome to our Open Game Thread for the ALDS game today. Chat with fellow readers as we watch the Guardians play the White Sox! Only Members can participate, and unlike our usual game chats, your messages will be posted immediately.
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UND football is blowing it’s chance for #1 after next week.
Sounds like you are only missing heartbreak.
And our All American caliber QB is hurt. He was probably going to get $ million+ next year from a big school.
What is the community consensus on whether the bullpen management by Vogt has been horrible, or horrible enough to warrant his immediate removal?
I have hated bullpen management this series, but no way I would let Vogt go. I assume bullpen management wasn’t just a Vogt decision, but a game plan worked out with the front office.
Good evening! Appreciate everyone being here.
It was worked out that you would only use your BEST pitchers in the LOWEST leverage situations???? What?
I agree. I think it’s been too much of win now and not to win the series.
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Why is Festa on the roster?
If he wasn’t hurt, I would have pitched him over Smith and Williams in the 9th
I don’t know if he’s hurt
Or 8th or previous game 8th or 9th… ok end rant… I am just venting a bit and looking for feedback. Cheers for the platform, everyone enjoy the game!!
This is good content, thought!
I guess my mild defense of Vogt would be tbat, given the state of CWS’s pitching, they have a decent chance of a blowout win in game 5. So all in in game 4 made some sense, maybe. Nevertheless, I agree that even with that assumption, some of the details were perplexing.
They were already in a “big lead” situation, up by 5 in the 8th (or at latest, in the 9th). How big a lead do you need to use your lower leverage guys?
umm… not buying the “Hey guys tomorrow is guaranteed to be a blowout win, so its fine if I’m stupid today” defense.
The real question is over/under 3 innings from Williams today and over/under 1.5 runs from Smith? These are the consequences of the previous decisions.
The only good idea I have had is that maybe – and this is a real conspiracy theory- the assumption was that hurricane is coming and there will not be a game on SAT.
The only hurricane I can remember making it to Cleveland was Sandy, which came from the other direction.
like I meant to imply its a horrible horrible explanation… just the only one I have.
It’s an extreme application of “Don’t save your pitcher for tomorrow; tomorrow it may rain.”
It might, in fact, but probably later, I think.
Happy Sam Antonacci Appreciation Week to everyone!
my read on Vogt is he got stuck in “we can’t plan for game 5 unless we make sure to win today”, which makes a small amount of sense, but if you increase your odds of winning G4 from 99.1% to 99.9% by using your best pitchers but maybe dramatically reduce your strength for G5…
Right this is catastrophically bad management… no?
for me not fireably bad since he’s proven to be very well respected at the job otherwise and this is a kind of strategic choice that could be corrected next time
If actively making your team less likely to win the series is not fire able can you give an example of something else, within the realm of could plausibly happen, which would rise to that level?
As a card carrying member of Team Entropy (still waiting for my flair), I really enjoy the chaos created by the, um, non-traditional bullpen usage.
Rays probably have no objection either.
I followed college football until the hated NIL turned the game into the NFL minor league but with major league salaries in the Big 4 conferences. There was a time that App. State could beat Michigan in the Big House. Today every game between majors and mid majors is 70-0. I haven’t watched a game, even UConn, this year.
edited
What about Michigan “losing” to Western Michigan this year?
Could we get another pivotal rain delay in a winner-take-all game in Cleveland?
I want to say if they delay, it will be suspended until tomorrow afternoon. But I’m not sure what this hurricane is going to do. I’m thinking about Sandy dumping rain on this region for like 2-3 days straight. This one looks more scattered.
Maybe a midge delay?
I will never forget it. It was so much fun to watch.
Vogt is vindicated. Williams is going 7 shutout innings tonight and Smith with a two inning save.
I will gladly issue a public apology if this happens.
I do not understand why everybody got so lathered up over Williams throwing some pitches on what is normally his throw day anyway.
Its much more the usage of the best pitchers in the lowest leverage situations. Smith was a waste in both games… same for Williams.
I agree that Williams was not the best choice there but he isn’t made of glass as many seem to think.
That was some high-octane rocket fuel from Williams
Here’s my question to everyone advocating for firing Vogt, or Boone or others: Who would you hire to replace him?
For Vogt… I would keep him as a bench coach/personality manager and just remove him from every strategic decision going forward. I have nothing against the guy, he seems genuinely likable and a decent person… I just cant defend the decisions and have not heard anyone suggest a way that they can be defended.
Vogt and/or Boone in that scenario
You would want them to swap teams?
Also, hi
Matt, you aren’t at the white out?
Nope – I have a job that keeps me pretty busy in October.
Also, I don’t think watching Penn State football is good for my mental health
I’m on the gamer tonight, so I can’t do much chatting, but I wanted to jump in and say hello to everyone.
The radar appears to show rain at the corner of Carnegie & Ontario but I don’t see any falling or any umbrellas in the stands.
There was a little visibly falling around first pitch time. I can’t see it now
There are some drops on their batting helmets
If anybody has any thoughts about what I should write tonight, just let me know.
Everyone take a paragraph!
Williams + Smith perfect game of course
I’m sure they can hang on.
jinxed, scrap that idea.
No-hitter still intact.
Why “Cleveland Rocks” is objectively the best localized ballpark/team themed song… sorry Boston. Or at least a comparative piece involving the options. I would read that.
This is a good lockout article idea.
🔥
Could do a March Madness-type bracket poll with it.
If this isn’t 80-grade stuff for a starter, I don’t know what is
Williams, at 6’6″ and a sturdy 250, doesn’t mentioned with Misiorowski, Tolle and Skenes as much as he should be. Just another strikeout machine.
Do you think the guy who plays Doug in the Liberty Mutual commercials has any regrets about how his life turned out?
Mayhem guy made it into John Wick… so it may be working out brilliantly and we just don’t know the endgame.
It’s super hard to get any steady work in that industry. That’s a decent gig. It’s no Flo from Progressive.
Incidentally, I went to high school with Mara from those Progressive commercials.
I work with a guy who reminds me of Doug. I mentioned this to him. He said – “the guy with the ostrich?” – I laughed and he left the room………….oops.
well, there’s the rain
Anyone know where Jason Heyward is?
Was there any talk about moving this early today?
5:00 on west coast is kind of a dead zone
More bad, low leverage challenges!
A challenge on the first pitch in the 3rd inning? What is he thinking?
fooled himself with where he caught it, maybe? it fell to top of the zone height by the time it was in his glove
He framed himself?
This was the first draft of Who Framed Roger Rabbit and it didn’t play well with audiences so they had to do a re-write.
Colson Montgomery said he wears his pants extra high to draw bad challenges from catchers.
Which makes me wonder:
They use some % of height for the zone, but are there hitters who fall on the edge of the bell curve in torso/leg proportion, where a catcher setting up (or an umpire) is fooled more often about where the auto-zone is?
(Like, not the tall/short guys)
CLEAT CLEANER.
Muddy boots is the appropriate penalty for pitching in VELCRO high-tops.
Least favorite baseball sayings. I will start……….”Flashing the leather”………I don’t know why – just bugs me.
“Great piece of hitting” when used to describe a ball that if you hit in the cage your coach would drop his head in disappointment but that ball somehow found the magic spot 107 feet from the plate to land where a glove wasn’t.
My dad always hated when they said ‘he had to cover a lot of real estate out there’. It was an unreasonable amount of hatred, like, he couldn’t move on after hearing that. Would just soliloquy about the quality of announcers these days and how they don’t paint the picture like they used to. I feel obligated to adopt that unhealthy, unbridled rage in his honor.
I like that we all went silent to watch the marvel that is tonight’s version of Williams.
Man Williams looks sharp- what a treat to get an old school pitching duel (so far) in this series, of all series
My jaw’s on the floor
Record for strikeouts in an LCS game seems to be 15 (Clemens).
I think Cole had 15 or 16 in 2019 as well
That was LDS. Looks like Livan Hernandez and Mussina are the other LCS game with 15.
Love how Gavin looks, but if this is a 1-0 game I’d take Chicago’s chances at a solo shot
I have nothing to add but want to see if a team shows up next to my name.
Click the little settings gear at the top right.
There you go.
Seuss, you can use the settings cog in the top right to select your team
How come Williams carried a 3.76 ERA and a 3.48? I have seen a 100 mph fastball, a 90 mph slider and 12-6 curveball, the likes of which is seldom seen today, that all look untouchable. Maybe in 2027 starters will be asked to make a relief appearance 2 days before each start if this is what comes out of it.
A ton of homers
That is what a Cricket swing normally looks like!! oops meant to post below… apologies
There ya go.
Streaming strikes again! I saw this about 30 seconds before contact was made on my TV.
Sorry. I’ll be more careful.
No way man! Live in the moment!
You can delay the chat up to 3 minutes with the gear in the corner.
Thank you again for this feature, it is awesome! For me at least, 15 seconds seems to line up perfectly
Those soccer-style chants worked!
Man how did he hit that
Wow!
man…….that was a great 9 iron !
That pitch was on the ground
That is what I was waiting to see! My favorite non-Red Sox player delivering yet again.
Matt, I saw the HR’s which confused me all the more. How can anyone even hit his stuff, much less take it deep?
Now this is the question… my guess is batters sell out for 100 up in the zone, and when they guess right, it goes a long way
Hi everyone, this game has been fun so far. Williams is absolutely dealing
To paraphrase Michael Corleone, all men can be taken yard
He’s giving strong Verlander vibes right now, and JV always had a bit of trouble with the HR ball
They are starting to take better swings…
So. . . how deep does Vogt let him get if things stay this way?
As long as he’s got his foot on their necks
I fully expect he will be pulled for Festa right now.
72 pitches through 5 is too many in today’s game, Vogt will be under the gun if Williams keeps this up. Of course if it was Bob Gibson on the mound Vogt would know that he should stay in the dugout and keep quiet.
Vogt always has a quick hook, and I wonder if he’ll take Williams out too soon
He has to get the 6th……….then see how that goes. If he gets the 8,9,1……..good to go
I know it’s not the newest thing but it is still wild that they will be those quick 5-10 second in-inning commercials. (Rhetorical question) Is there no end to how much we will be subjected to advertising the rest of our lives?
If I’m Vogt I’m hoping Williams and Smith are the only two pitchers to touch the ball at this point
ah… deja vu
oops……..
Why is the 9 hitter going for three there?
Ooof, that’s rough.
I have a new scapegoat if CLE loses!!
That was a good gamble with one out. It would have been hard to get him in from 2nd.
much harder from the dugout
As I said, it was a gamble but a good one.
8 hitter; point still stands
Gotta be a hero.
While we have been enthralled with the pitching of Williams, Burke is actually the first White Sox starter to get past the 5th this post-season.
This has been a much better-pitched game than I was expecting all around. Just the one swing from the best hitter in this series.
I don’t recommend that on an 0-2 count
Williams hadn’t thrown many sliders and that wasn’t the time to throw one.
That is not CADE SMITH!
I don’t care who wins but j want a hit so we don’t have Blake Snell 2.0 discourse.
With this pitch count it’s not going to be that controversial, I don’t think. He’s also kinda pitching like he’s not expecting to pitch the 7th.
You can breathe a sigh of relief
When Javier was pulled with a no-hitter in the World Series I don’t remember many people saying he should have stayed in
Especially with multiple series after this one (you’d hope if you’re Vogt), can’t risk Williams getting hurt or tiring after today
And there it is
WHY ISNT SMITH WARMING UP???
As much as I hate to say it, the White Sox are getting much better swings and there is the first hit.
Vargas his last hitter either way?
Williams was a victim of his own strikeouts in pursuit of the No-hitter. Hard to do it when you throw that many pitches.
Green light here?
If Vogt brings in Sabrowski of the 6 bb/9 in with the bases loaded here can I then have him fired please?
Oof that could be a huge missed call
Nvm
What a turn of events
I’m not sure if Murakami is the guy I most want up if I’m the Sox or least want up.
Does Williams run out of gas if he doesn’t throw a couple days ago?
Well that escalated quickly
This is an instance when it appears Williams gave it his all from pitch one and has run out of gas. Vogt is definitely making the right move here and that comes from an old school fab who believes in letting the starter go very deep.
No the right move is bringing in SMITH… anyone else is a error
Closers close!
New candidate for my answer to least favorite thing baseball people say!
I gotta wonder if hitters don’t challenge because they know the pitcher is gonna go back to that spot and then they will just challenge if it’s called a strike again.
Kind of like baiting the pitcher.
No trouble finding the zone there
Made it, but they’re going to miss that challenge I think.
Great situation to challenge, bad pitch
Glad it worked but that should have been smith.
Gaddis would have been my pick, Smith likes closing. Just not the high walk guy.
A lefty against Murakami is the better choice.
Smith in addition to being far better, walking fewer batters, HAS REVERSE PLATOON SPLITS!!!
Dude it worked and Smith is still there. You have no argument
To play devil’s advocate, you can afford a walk there (theoretically), but you absolutely cannot afford a homer
I don’t see this game ends in 2-0 or 2-1, but it may be my wishful thinking
Hard to see it right now. But we’ll see
I really want Jo Adell to hit another triple
Murakami has pretty big splits, so I think bringing in a lefty made sense
Almost a 50% K percentage against lefties.
what are you talking about its a lower Xwoba vs righties
and higher K rate vs righties
dont just make crap up
No Brian, Murakami fans a higher rate against lefties.
I was basing the splits on OPS, which I know some FG people wouldn’t approve of
34.9 <35.7 both less than “almost 50%”
Try Baseball- Reference.
HERESY
It matters if you divide by PAs or ABs.
In my experience as a Tiger’s fan, there is now a 100% chance that runner will score, most likely on an infield hit of some kind
Its hard to generate much enthusiasm when the White Sox have a 117% strikeout rate today
Sam A will be the ultimate floor next year.
Here you go Brian547!
Forget about strikeout rate with two outs and Murakami up:
vs. LHP: 110 wRC+, .328 wOBA, xwOBA .364
vs. RHP: 138 wRC+, .368 wOBA, xwOBA .344
Results say Murakami is better vs. RHP, though xwOBA says the opposite. Cade Smith is the best pitcher in the bullpen and that was a crucial spot. I get it. But I like the Sabrowski matchup.
I also don’t think any major league manager is going to bring in the closer in the sixth inning, no matter the leverage or whether it’s the correct move. Teams just don’t do it.
That is how I was looking at it. The 6th was simply not the right time for Smith.
Wasn’t that Andrew Miller in 2016? haha
I don’t want to say that it’s definitely not the right time. It’s just not the way managers do things rn
I’ve never really understood this… it seems like the best RP should be the first RP brought into a leverage situation regardless of inning
This is a completely fair conclusion to draw. It’s just not how teams operate
FWIW: Andrew Miller wasn’t Cleveland’s closer in 2016, even if he was the team’s best pitcher. The closer was Cody Allen. Having two guys like that makes it easier to use one of them early
Pitchers are not machines. They are people just like the rest of us and a closer reacts to a closing situation differently that he would to a non-close situation. The rush that he gets from closing just isn’t the same earlier in the 6th.
That inverted xwOBA is crazy.
Could it be directional? Like a tendency to pull against righties that would make wOBA beat xwOBA?
Definitely could be
Truly — I think that will align with the rest over time. Small samples, etc.
Hahahahahaha Petey Halpin against a lefty again!
How many runs would CLE have to score here for Smith to get pulled?
Given prior indications… ~42
Yeah, this is strong “the limit does not exist” territory
I think we can say, without question, that Smith owns the 9th here.
Halpin OWNS Sean Newcomb
Apparently at least 5, since he was left in with a six-run lead
Gotta walk Kwan here!
Ok I legit think this is a troll
Not a fan of intentionally walking the bases loaded
Kwan is the best contact hitter in the game and you don’t want him getting the bat on the ball with the infield in.
man that Jose guy sucks right
This is a whole lot of drama to serve as a prelude to three White Sox Ks to end the game.
I would like to see 21 K’s which would be a first in a 9 inning game.
One, ah-ah-ahhhhh.
TWO, ah-ah-ahhhhh.
THREEEEEE, ah-ah-ahhhhh!
This has been a very enjoyable game from a neutral perspective.
yikes
I find it nearly incomprehensible that a team that has reached the LCS could strikeout at least 19 times in two out of three games.
The White Sox are a great story but a very flawed team. They’re here because the Astros were that bad.
96 in just 7 games in the postseason.
are you not entertained?
Luis Arraez struck out 21 times in 2025
Benintendi is, sadly, not very good. This is not the career I thought he’d have c. 2016.
I thought he was going to be something special as well.
Nailing the projection for Benintendi, Moncada, and Devers in 2016 with pretty much perfect accuracy is my favorite victory lap.
serious question time… would benintendi be allowed to wear that belt if he was pitching? oops guess they all are
rays in 4.
Rays will be massive favorites
Now I hope Jose Ramirez can continue his magic in the ALCS.
Cade Smith is nasty. Cleveland is going to be a much tougher matchup for the Rays.
Chicago K Sox
maybe this smith guy is pretty good
Cleveland, sworn enemy of the Holy See
Bring it
Rays will definitely be favored. But an all-midwest WS would be fun, to me.
The rays have 3 Cade Smiths.
Thanks everyone for showing up today! See everyone tomorrow for the start of the NLCS!